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I happened to come upon your blog by accident, and I must say, it has taken up a large portion of my time this morning! I must say you write very passionately, and your posts are a joy to read.

This particular post interested me, not just because I am currently dating a Russian woman in the US (I’m Indian, and we’ve been together for over 3 years) but also because of the very interesting discussions in the comments. It seems this post has been generating interest for almost a year now!

Kudos to you.

I agree with everything you said in this post. It even turned out that while I was on a path of losing my spirituality before I met my girlfriend, (due to various factors) she put me right back on track! I do love her so!

Good luck in all your endeavors!

So much of beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I do feel that due to western colonization and cultural dominance it is the West European standard that gets applied almost everywhere.

One thing that I do know distinguishes the majority of Indian (and Asian) women from their middle-eastern and western counterparts is the fact that most of them have worked in fields throughout our history. This is because Asian societies were almost entirely agrarian, and still are to a great extent.

iam glad that atleast now i came to know all these and also dnt hav words to praise you! ……. nice blog too.

Thanks for the forum and your clear explanations. I recently have been in correspondence with a russiian woman. She is very beautiful and I have a myriad of pictures from her. Soon she will be traveling to America to meet me. She absolutely adores me

Although this has not been an issue between us but what is the sentiments of Russian Women and African American Men? I am African American and of course there are very few black people in Russian at all. What do you think my challenges would be if any?

You may say it should not be a worry if she adores me and I agree. I’m just doing my homework on her culture and the reception of the people in Russia on people of color. I’m sure there are not many Interracial couples walking down the streets of St Petersburg holding hands

When we share the thoughts from our souls, we realise that we are similiar in more ways than we can imagine.

Basically I believe that people are not differnt at all – it is only that differnt feelings and thought are arising at differnt times, but basically we are all from the same dough, right?

However one thing which is definitly same about you, Raj and me (and most of my readers), that we are all spiritual people. Then we truly speak the same language, the language of the spirit – and it is a pure, clear one!

Any discussion, however clever and intelligent it is – is for me something much more, it is a talk of the souls…this is more important and also more beautiful than any smart arguments and sharings…dont you agree? For it is the comfort of the heart that we seek, also in a marriage, right? )

Your eternal optimism is very cute. It’s a big part of what I love about you. Actually I think all three of us are not as different as we might seem. Over all we do want the same things. We only differ in the areas of education and experince. When you can appreciate that in a individual than that’s what makes comunication great. Talking to someone with the exact same beleifs, toughts, or ideas is kind of like talking to yourself. A person can learn and solve some problems alone, but we work much better as a cohesive unit. I think solutions and problems are better solved by people with different backgrounds useing their own unique lodgic and understanding of history. Each of us have things that we understand better than another. And, if each individual realizes that not all his or her beleifs, thoughts, or ideas is nessarily right one hundred percent of the time, than there’s always hope for change in ones life and the world at large. We bring out the best in each other. You know what? This kind of thinking makes some good marriage sense too.

Newfoundlander

I share your hope for the world . . . I am a dreamer as well . . .

Under communism I understand THE PURE form of it, and not the funny system we had in the Soviet Union (bwt, it was calles socialism, not communism!!!). The true communism has never happend yet on this Earth, but hopefully it will one day.
At least one day, when peple of all the nations and religion will fell like ONE being. Above all I am a big idealist, and I belive in the best
May be not in our life time…

Please see my article on communism, then it will be more clear what I mean:

http://1000petals.wordpress.com/2008/02/23/what-is-really-wrong-with-capitalism-or-why-i-believe-in-communism/

Yes, I realized as much from your negitive veiws on liberal and Capitalist Ideas. You will find that American and Canadian people are somewhat predudice toward communism. Partly because they don’t understand it and partly because of the peceived ristrictions on freedom. They have become notorious for brutal regemes who generally hold their power through force. It is also true that communism more often than not has failed to bring the peace and prosperity that was promised. But on the other hand, capitalism has succeeded in bringing prosperity to the western world. I think I understand your veiws? “Many times posperity is taken at the expense of the environment as well as the poorer of the worlds nations.” However I would say that there are elements of truth and value in both ways of thinking. Again its about meeting a reasonable balance.

Raj is right, I am a conservitive Christian. But I think Axinia, you’ll be more supprised to know that I am also a political liberal. It may seem strange to you, and yet I stand on the side of many of the same people I disagree with. Also, because of my beleifs in the teachings of Christ I have some leanings toward Communist ideas as well. Like I said, it takes elements of all to truly make a political system great! I wish more people could understand this principle. It’s never a matter of “us against them.” This kind of thinking gets people on the defensive puting up walls and closeing the door to compromise. The same holds true for matters of religion.

Newfoundlander

Newfoundlander

I have not read the Bible but I do believe it contains several truths. And yes, I consider Jesus Christ as one of the great masters who walked upon this Earth.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is not only men who hurt women. The reverse is equally true. While it is only a cowardly man who will hurt a woman physically, even wonderful women can hurt men emotionally at times. And I again wholeheartedly agree with you that laws cause so much mistrust and conflict between the sexes. There are a few nasty laws in my country that do this as well. Women always know how to use words to their own advantage, so they always have the upper hand when it comes to using things like the law to hit out at men with sharp words. Swords cause physical pain but words cause emotional pain. And the poor men who are hurt do not know how to express themselves emotionally, so they bear it silently.

I don’t know why marriages fail. I guess there are different reasons in different countries. Also, Atlantic, have you ever noticed this simple thing about an argument between a man and a woman: men choose to attack concepts and ideas but women choose to attack men.

My textbooks did not contain much information about the history of Canada and Mexico. But they always portrayed the American War of Independence as the American Revolution and it was given almost as much coverage as the French Revolution. I guess the historians in my country wanted to compare American Independence with our own Independence that happened much later. And yes, India has more in common with the U.S.A. than it does with Canada or Australia, for instance. But I have always admired Canada and Australia as those countries have great respect for Human Rights. I pray that Indians learn to respect Human Rights as much as the Canadians and the Australians do.

I guess the reasons for the Canadian and American Independence were different because of the different nature of the two countries and also because of the different times at which they occurred. Britain was quite a strong power at the time of the American Independence but was considerably weakened by the time of World War I. Also it matters who you are fighting against. I believe some of the British imperialists had a conscience despite all their arrogance. So non-violence was an effective means of protest against the Brits. M. K. Gandhi realised this and used the power of Truth and conscience very effectively against the Brits. It would be have been ridiculous to use the power of Truth against the Nazis, for instance. And I believe in revolutionary ways of thinking, though I am not a fan of violence.

I don’t know about women in other countries, Atlantic, but Indian women are not as liberated as you think they are. I have read about some shocking cases where women have been the greatest enemy of other women. This led me to believe that one half of the female population often turns out to be the greatest enemy of the other half but I am glad to know that this is not always true in the Western world. I never blame the women, though. They have been brainwashed by the patriarchal societies in which they live.

Newfoundlander, I did not say that Indian women are brainwashed into having children. I said they are brainwashed into believing that they are not complete women if they don’t have children. While the first sentence means the use of active methods of brainwashing, the second one implies the use of passive methods.

About myself, I never impose my views on anyone. I always believe that women have more reproductive rights than men as they are the ones who bear children. So I shall leave it to the woman to decide. In any case, it would be a personal thing between the husband and the wife, though I believe the wife should have the final say in issues such as this.

You mentioned Indian women being brainwashed into having children. Are you sure you want them? Just curious.

Newfoundlander

“Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you” is one of the great teachings that Jesus taught. In the context in which it was writen it has more to do with meeting people were their needs are than treating people all the same. Infact when Christ spoke about it in Luke Chapter 6 he was refering to loving ones enemies, doing good unto those who hate you, and not expecting anything in return. Jesus lived by this and it was for this philosophy that he died but he did not always give people the exact things they asked for and wanted. One of the most important reasons is that not everything we want is nessarily good for us. Some things may not seem harmful in small amounts but they can quickly become a bigger and more important part of our lives. Remember that people are shaped and molded by the things they value the most.

Feminists fight for rights and laws to protect themselves and to give them an advantage with men. The problem is that men at times have been put at a disadvantage. Men that have been hurt have begun to organize groups like the mens rights movement, with the hope of making new rights and laws to protect themselves. These rights and laws would potentiallly hurt women and the cycle continues. These laws also cause mistrust and conflict between the sexes. Forgivess is one thing but “trust” once lost is most exceedingly difficult to regain. Love without trust? Can you guess why marriges are failing?

One wrong won’t fix a problem and neither will two wrongs make a right. Anytime people fight for rights useing force to get their own way someone ends up getting hurt and possibly loses there own rights. There’s always a trade off. Wheither the agressor thinks they deserve these rights or not, is not a good enough reason. The histroy of North America ilistrates this point and I think it fits very well with this discussion in some ways. As it is widely known America can be arogant and and agressive at times in matters of business and politics. (To be fair they do lots of good things too!) Ofcourse, Canada on the other hand is a little more laid back but what you may not have known is that these two countries have a history of being very different wihich goes right back to the founding fathers. Though their separation ocurred close to two hundred years ago, the difference politicaly can still be felt. Both countries are British in decent. (Minus the French) During the early days of settlement America wanted their rights and the freedom to rule themselves and so they rebeled against the British crown. However the northern colonies remained loyal. In the war that followed in 1775 countless and needless lives were lost as they tried to push the Britsh from our connent. America did manage to win their freedom but thousands of amercan loyalists from the south were made homeless and forced to flee north to what is now known as Canada. They were forced to give up their rights so that everyone else could have freedom. You would think that once a person has won their rights they’ed be satisfied but they weren’t. In 1812 when the British were otherwise ocupied in a war with France America once again tried to defeat Canadain loyalists. Perhaps Britain had ristricted some of america’s rights but their behavior was no different. Once again more lives were lost as they tried to force American will on Canada. These colonists had done nothing wrong outside of the desire to be Loyal to the commonwealth. After three years and two major invasions the war ended.

My point is this, yes, America did get rights and freedom and yes, they have a right to be proud of it, but at what cost? Canada also has its rights and freedom as well and they are just as proud. More over not a drop of blood was shed or a single right taken. It was a free gift from Britain after its contributions in world war 1. What can I say? I guess whether it’s matters of a political nature or involves the relations between men and women I still lean to the loyalist way of thinking. By the way, I’m proud to be half American as well. (Smile)

Raj, there is good reason why men or women don’t feel “complete” without children. Ofcoarse I don’t think women should be forced to have them. On the other hand, I don’t really know of many societies that would use force in this day and age. I guess this is a right that woman have pretty much always had. I mean, it’s there body right? But in a society thats not broken down this would be the exception and not the norm. Russian and Indian women as well as many other nationalities all want children with few exceptions. There was a time only a couple of generations ago when western women were not all that much different. I’m sure I don’t know all the reasons why this has changed. It’s really quite complicated and I don’t doubt that men have played some part in it as well. The last thing I want to do is to simply blame women. That’s just to easy.

Newfoundlander

Newfoundlander

When I used the word “our” that is exactly what I ment. I would never single out women alone. Both men and women could be considerd selfish. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.

I guess I just find it a little odd that you put such a high value on the importance of women while holding such low values of men. I value both and not one above the other. It is easy for me to lean more toward women as their love is truely beautiful to me as a man but I can’t deny the impact that a husband has on the family either. I also feel that I as a man should want to be husband, should want to be a providor, and be the best father I can be. Biologicly I was created to be this and if some how for some reason I didn’t want to experince this great gift than there’s something wrong with my priorities. In the same way, children are the most amazing and fulfilling of lifes challenges that a woman could face. You don’t commit you life to family with the expectation of special privleges. Nor do you want them. Is not love enough? Yes, we do try to do what ever we can to please each other but not because we should or have to. If we were to use these reasons our love would be half hearted to say the least. My point is men don’t need to force women to take up their roles as mothers and I don’t recomend it, but I would say that if they won’t men should seek out real women that will and leave the others to their money and careers. The same holds true for men who value “things” more than love and family. Ladies those guys are hopeless!

Newfoundlander

I guess you are correct when you say that Indian women are very feminine when compared to those in the West. I respect their feminity very much. But our culture has actually brainwashed them into believing that only by being good daughters and wives and mothers, they would be good women.

Infact, many women here still believe that they would not be “complete” women if they do not experience motherhood atleast once in their lives. I will never say that they should not believe in that. But it should be left to each woman to decide for herself. No one else should decide for her. If a woman wants to have five or seven children, that is fine as long as it does not affect her health and as long as her husband is willing to be the father of so many children. If a woman does not want to have even a single child, that should be accepted by everyone as it is her wish. Afterall, it is the woman who is going to bear the child and not the man.

I’m sorry I missed your last comments. I have to say though that I’m totally with you on that one, so long as we can have leaders as sweet and diplomatic as Axinia! Just remember one thing, women like that are not so easy to come by here in the west. You are indian, and I can imagine indian woman are still very feminine and have a totaly different set of values. The women you see and know are likely a lot different than the ones I do. For me as a westerner haveing to choose between currupt male leaders and women with extreme fiminist veiws, that would be a tough call. Honestly I don’t think there’s a difference.
(There must not be. After all, if I were a full blooded American I would actually consider voting for Hillery Clinton!) My way of thinking is that a feminist can’t possibly do any worse than George W. Bush!

Getting in touch with our feminine side? Yep, I’m with you on that too. More importantly, the women here could work on that as well. It seems to me that power is the ultimate culprit in the loss of feminity and so I’m not sure your plan will work. Than the question becomes, is the risk worth the reward? Would we distroy the true bueaty of women that are left with what ever it is that is distroying the west and then at the end of the day have nothing to show for it. Thats my fear.

Anyway, haven’t you ever heard the old saying “the hand that rocks the cradle rules the world”. Woman really have always had a voice not to mention the countless queens who have ruled throughout the centries in Europe. Some of them were really quite ruthless and I’d hardly discribe them as feminine. Still, find a girl who is and I’ll let her rule my world any day! If she wants to. No complaints!

Newfoundlander

You made an important point that taking our rights at the expense of everyone else is selfish. I guess you had women in mind when you said that. On the other hand, I have men in my mind when I say taking our rights at the expense of those of women is selfish. I mean, I want men to give up some of our rights if women want it that way.

I too believe that love should always be free. We men are free all our lives as we do not bear children. But women aren’t so free when they bear children. They have great responsibility thrust on them. Ofcourse, fathers too have some responsibility but that is absolutely nothing when compared to that of mothers. So if women want to be free of the responsibility because we men do not have that to the extent that women do, then why should we deny it to them?

Is “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” not a principle of Christianity? I guess this applies to the relationship between a man and a woman as well. Once men realise this, then women would not have to fight for their rights or respect. We men would automatically respect women for what they are and give them whatever they want. If they want the same rights as men, then we would have to give them that. If they want more respect for what they are asked to do, then we would have to give them that as well.

Being men, we will never know what women go through because of their physiological and emotional characteristics. Ofcourse we may have a different set of characteristics that women may not understand completely. But I will never, ever deny that it is easy being a man but it can be very difficult being a woman at times. Since women already go through so much without even having children, if they do not want to go through any more because of children, why should we deny them that? I mean, we men are fairly simple fellows. Our needs are fairly simple when compared to those of women. So if women too want to simplify their needs and responsibilities, why should we deny them that?

Just like love you can’t earn your rights. Neither can a christian earn salvation all these things are a free gift. When people begin to say things like “I’ll do this if you’ll do that or give me that” the gift becomes pointless and love impossible. I don’t want to be given rights because I deserve them. I don’t want to be loved and catered to because I think I should be. In the same way I want a woman to love me because she wants to give it freely and I will give it to her as well. Why should she want to fight me for it?

I think Raj, what you were advocating is your own since of fairness and really not equality at all. What is fairness? Is it giving everyone exactly what they ask for because you think they deserve it? This is western thinking, and I got to tell you that this is the kind of atitude the west has gotten rich and powerful by while others are kept weak and poor. Anything we ask for we have been given. Taking our rights at the expense of everyone else is selfish and is cirtainly not equality.

Axina, I really liked your comment about Knowing you have rights and feeling free within your own soul. “Atleast thats the way I interpeted it.” I deffinatly think you touched on the route of the problem. It’s really about respecting others as well as your own self. If you do that others will treat you in kind and so there’s no need to fight. Cool…

Newfoundlander

I agree that power has a tendency to corrupt anyone unless that person is a true saint. So what that essentially means is that those who have power are corrupt to an extent. And around the world, it is we men who have the power. I don’t know if there is any society where women have more power than men. As you mentioned, some countries in North America or Europe may be in a state where women have almost equal power as men. But this is a recent phenomenon. We still do not know how women would use the power if they are given more rights and respect than men. Since we men have not done a good job till now, why not give women a chance?

I mean, take a look at what is happening in the world where “masculine” attitudes are more dominant. We have war, terrorism, human rights abuses and so on. And who are the persons who are affected the most by those things? The women, ofcourse! Not that men are not affected, but women are affected to a far greater extent than men. Also since men are generally physically stronger than women, they tend to physically abuse women.

Now, if the world is dominated by “feminine” attitudes, it would be a much better place for all of us. Ofcourse, we men may get less respect than what we do now and some of our rights may be taken away, but so what? I don’t think women will subject men to such cruelty in a a world dominated by them as we have been doing to them to over thousands of years. We men must try to look at the larger picture than just think of ourselves.

this is an absolutely great point you made here!! -

Still, believe it or not power corupts both men and women.

It is true, that is why I never judje politicinas – who would behave better at their place? It is a hard thing, to rule and to stay OK. – men or women, does not matter. Unless you are so highly spiritual like Ghandi, but he is truly an exeption.

You started out by recomending equal rights for everyone, then extra rights for those that are disadvantged , and finally special rights for women or those that do exta work. We need to treat others unequal in order to make equal? I don’t think this makes much sense. But you did raise a good point about those that are disadvantaged needing special privileges in order to level the playing feild and on this part I agree with you. However I fail to see how western feminist women are disadvantaged. They have had a strong infuence on shaping western society for the last couple of generations and things here are getting worse not better. You asume that the world would be a better place if women were given “more rights than men.” This is already a fact of life in America. Perhaps at one time it was the men who were contolling and abused their power. You freely admit that we haven’t done A good job. Still, believe it or not power corupts both men and women. Neither of us is amune to corruption. Special rights and privileges lead people toward a since of intitlement and this is a big contributing factor in materailism. “More wants more.” Will people ever just be satisfied?

But serously equal is a math term used to measure mass, volume, weight, etc It’s actually a great misuse of the word to try and apply it to people, rights, and freedoms.

Newfoundlander

Спасибо!

You have hit the nail on the head! A woman does not necessarily have to be a feminist to fight for her rights. It is enough if women just assert their feminine nature to get the respect that they deserve. True men always respect feminity. At the same time, if women feel that they can get respect from men only by being feminists, I won’t deny them that either

I believe that it is not only that everyone should be give the same right – in fact, EVERYONE IS ALREADY GIVEN the same rights. It has only to be understood and respected! The problem I see here is that people do not realise it themselves and let others suppress themselves or misuse… It is a pity you can not meet me in person now, but you can ask anyone who knows me – I am an anti-feminist and at the same time men are extremely respectful and caring towards me. Actually I behave the opposite of these “fighters for women rights” and I get exactly what they want to get. How it is possible? Because I KNOW what I am, and that I am a free person already given every right. If I am that, I don’t need to prove, right? Probably it is the matter of self-respect… And also of the respect of my femininity…

Yes, I too think it would seem interesting or even strange when we expect someone from a certain culture to think in a certain manner and then discover that they think in a different way. But thought is free and the internet is also free and it is great that we are able to find out how others think

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Newfoundlander/Atlantic,

Don’t worry, brother. I don’t feel insulted by your views. Everyone has a right to have an opinion and I like to find out how others think as well.

I agree that no two persons are the same. That is simply not possible. That is why humans are so diverse. Diversity is a great thing that should not be destroyed.

But there cannot be different rights for different persons. That would be unfair. There should be equal rights for everyone. Infact, I firmly believe that those who are disadvantaged must be given greater rights than those who are not, so that everyone has an equal chance to succeed in life. For instance, differentially abled persons must be given more rights just because they are differentially abled. By doing that, we would give them what Nature has denied them. Though I believe in evolutionary theories, they do not apply to when it comes to human rights. Things like “Might is right” and “Survival of the fittest” are “Laws of the jungle” according to me and they should be left in the jungle.

I also believe that if someone is asked to perform extra duties, then they should be given extra rights. It is like if one works overtime, one should get adequately paid for that. And overtime work should not be forced on anyone, even if they are paid handsomely for every extra hour of work that they put in. It should be purely voluntary.

So I think since women are asked to bear children which is something men cannot do, they should be given extra rights and extra respect for doing that. And it should be purely voluntary on the part of women to have children. A woman should not be forced to have a child against her wish. It would be extremely unfair on the part of men to say that women must have children because Nature has conditioned them for motherhood.

I agree that women in the Middle-East do not have adequate rights. I can only hope that there is a strong feminist movement, like the ones in North America and Europe to liberate women in the Middle-East. The sooner that happens, the better it would be for the whole world.

If women want to be men, they have a right to do so. I don’t know why we men feel so insecure about ourselves that we fear that the world would become a bad place if women want to become men. On the contrary, I think the world would be a much better place if women are given more rights than men. Even if that means less respect for men. I mean, we men have had so much rights and respect throughout history. We have misused our rights and treated women as second-class citizens. This has happened in almost all societies in the world. So now, I guess the time has come for women to get the respect that they deserve for just being women!

I too found your veiws interesting. I love to hear a prespective from someone of a different background. I hope that I don’t insult you if we disagree on some things. The thing is (Axinia’s probibly noticed) I’m exceedingly opinionated on a lot of issues. I may also be speaking from a different political and social awarness depending on the different societies we’ve been exposed to. Take care brother.

Newfoundlander